A Funny Thing Happened

... on the way to posting an entry

The identity of the fifth empire in Daniel 2 has eluded scholars and historians, with good reason, probably from about the time Daniel actually penned the account.

I thought I would post an entry, properly cited and sourced, along with some elementary deductive reasoning, to share with others the identity of Daniel’s missing fifth empire as it has great relevance to our current day’s events as it is a key element in our understanding of last days prophecy. So, I was a bit taken back when a popular on-line encyclopedia refused to keep my entry posted citing the following reasons.

It said it “… does not publish original thought.” I don’t know whose original thought this was, but I got the feeling immediately that this wasn’t meant as a compliment. Nevertheless, I took it as one, thank you. However, aren’t all thoughts original to mankind’s consciousness at one time? The Biblical record was original. Some of it is still to occur. Even E=mc² was an original thought about one hundred years ago even though it was based on establish fact that had been around billions of years, i.e., the universe. And most certainly, the identity of Daniel’s fifth empire didn’t originate with me. It’s plastered all over the history books, which likely number in the tens of thousands, if not more. I merely pointed it out. Such are the travails of being a messenger.

It begs the philosophical question, when does a thought cease being original? It appears in the case of a popular on-line encyclopedia that original thoughts cease to be original after the passage of an undetermined period of time and garners approval of a sufficiently large, unknown number of non-original thinkers. Herdapedia™. As of this writing at the end of 2009, there are no on-line matches on the Internet for Herdapedia™. Another original thought. I’m plagued.

A popular on-line encyclopedia noted too, “All material … must be attributable to a reliable, published source.” I wasn’t sure if I should believe them on this one. Being published on-line is not sufficient to qualify as a reliable source according to the publisher of an on-line encyclopedia. I guess I have to take them at their word. And what are we to make, then, of all these, heretofore, respected print newspapers, not to mention encyclopedias, now on-line? Are they suddenly unreliable? Could be. At least one formerly respected, major print NY newspaper since has become unreliable.

It also states that, “Changes made to it should reflect consensus.” Taken to a logical deduction, if the herd consensus was 1+1=3, and you came along with 1+1=2, you’d be out of luck just like the Columbian adventurer Nunez discovered when he attempted to climb Mount Parascotopetl.

Imagine a group of people standing on a beach noticing all the water along the shore retreating. They stand there pondering this event they’ve not seen before. You come along with the original thought, from their point of view, that a tsunami is causing this, and they should leave the beach immediately and run for the hills. They thank you, but say any change in their location will be determined by consensus. Thin the herd.

My reason for bringing this up is that if you want to learn something “new and original,” even if completely valid and properly cited, you won’t find it on a popular on-line encyclopedia even when attributed to a reliable, published source directly related to the topic. You will find consensus error, however, not attributed to a reliable, published source, as we’ll see.

The article below, ever so briefly posted on a popular on-line encyclopedia, extensively quotes a reliable, published source commonly referred to as the Old and New Testaments, aka the Bible. I thought it to be directly related to the Biblical identity of the fifth empire in the book of Daniel. It also quotes a reliable published source from 1917 whose copyright ended in 1998 dealing with said empire, cites Sir Isaac Newton and includes general common knowledge found in numerous allegedly reliable, published history texts of “Western Civilization,” with which the fifth empire was directly involved, all to no avail. So it seems the publisher of this on-line encyclopedia was right. They are not a reliable published source.

The popular on-line encyclopedia’s action to remove the article is particularly puzzling especially in light of the fact that the seemingly “original thought” by Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists and non-cited, reliable [?], published [?] “numerous Jewish scholars,” whoever they might be, on the same subject, are included. Heck, my article even agrees with these numerous Jewish guys, whoever they are, as to the number of empires. I thought that I should just write, “According to numerous Jewish scholars,” in front of everything a popular on-line encyclopedia determined to be “original.”

I don’t even know who checks facts and then deletes articles. I can’t image a person verifying the entire article for consensus in mere minutes. Maybe it’s a computer. Did you know in alphanumerology that the word “computer” adds up to 666? It’s not my original thought in case you were wondering.

A popular on-line encyclopedia also states, “Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position not clearly advanced by the sources,” even when said published material in a popular on-line encyclopedia is in error in relation to preponderant other published source material?

But what about original thoughts advanced by the sources that have been forgotten over time? Nope. No original thoughts about original thoughts allowed. I was beginning to feel that original thought was philosophical kin to original sin.

The qualifying caveat here is that the position must be clearly advanced by the source. This is very strange in that the analysis presented here is exactly what was advanced both by John and Daniel in the Biblical record, a reliable, published source. Although, in all fairness, the book of Daniel does state, “And he [God] said, Go your way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end,” which in context clearly appears to be an original thought. They got me.

As for you, the reader, I leave it up to you to make up your own mind. This site is hardly Herdapedia.™ Instead, you've entered the OTZ, the Original Thought Zone. Think for yourself and enjoy.

--Michael J. Miller

The following article’s style has been “de-encyclopedia-ized,” and thus is a bit less formal, for posting here.

Analysis: Daniel's Missing Fifth Empire

There is general agreement, dare we say consensus, [nearly all Biblical scholars including Nelson’s Dictionary Articles, the scholarly commentaries of Matthew Henry, Jamieson, Fausset and Brown, and Adam Clarke et al] regarding the identity of the first four empires mentioned in Daniel’s chapter 2 prophecy, regarding the dream he interpreted for King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon in the second year of his reign, about 602 BCE.

They are the Babylonian, Persian, Greek and Roman empires. It is the fifth empire that has been difficult to pin down with vague and uncertain guesses as to its identity abounding. And there is debate over whether or not there are five, and not four empires mentioned. However, Daniel 2, a reliable published source is very clear and precise in its identifying the fifth empire exactly in accordance with the theological arrow of time. See chapter five in The Blind Man's Elephant for details. A complimentary PDF copy is at the bottom of the Home page.

Sir Isaac Newton recognized the connection between Daniel’s book and the New Testament’s book of Revelation [The Prophecies of Daniel and The Apocalypse, 1733]. Most of the key information leading to the positive identity of the fifth empire is contained in Daniel 2, but also in the book of Revelation, chapter 17. [See the Feature article, Revelation 17: Big Brother, The 21st Century Antichrist]. In verse seven we read, “And the angel said unto me, Wherefore did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and ten horns.” Then in verse ten, we read, “And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come ….”

The woman in verse seven is the city Jerusalem according to John. Jerusalem has relevance to both the seven heads and the ten horns. In context of Revelation 17, the beast is a prophetical/historical reference to all seven empires, five of which are fallen from the time frame of the sixth empire, or the “one is” empire whose “deadly wound was healed” as stated in Revelation 13. After the sixth empire, a seventh will follow at some future date. Daniel 2’s empires are the five that are fallen in Revelation. [See The Sneakers article, Who Inflicted The Beast's Deadly Wound?].

This beast also has ten horns that carry Jerusalem. The ten horns are the ten nations of Israel in the last days from the time perspective of Revelation 17, which is the time of the sixth, “one is,” empire. [See the Feature article, Ten Horns, Ten Nations]. The sixth empire of Revelation, also referenced in Daniel 7, has not yet made its official appearance on the world’s stage, when the Lamb, Christ, opens the sixth seal mentioned in Revelation 6, verse 12. The ten horns are the same ten nations of Israel in Genesis 49 when Israel is telling his twelve sons what shall befall them. According to Israel, two of his twelve sons, Simeon and Levi, are scattered among the nations of their brothers in the last days. Hence, ten nations, not twelve.

The nation-state of Israel is one of the ten nations of Israel. They are the nation of Judah mentioned in Genesis 49, verses 8-12. Together with the nine other nations of Israel, they make up the ten horns according to Revelation 17. Jerusalem, as is commonly known, is of tremendous importance for all the nations of Israel. The process of ten nations of Israel having national identities again began during the Roman Empire according to Daniel. “The fourth beast [Rome] shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth … and the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise ….” [Dan. 7:23,24]. The geographical area that comprised the western leg of the Roman Empire, in large part makes up the territory of the House of Israel today.

Daniel 2 concerns itself with the “five are fallen” from our current day point of view. The deadly wound of empire number five was inflicted by a “stone.” We read in Daniel 2, verse 34, “You saw until that a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image upon his feet, that were of iron and clay, and broke them to pieces.” This is not a reference to the end of the fourth empire or Rome. This is a specific reference to the fifth empire that is fallen.

Indeed, Daniel’s chapter 2 description does show us five empires. In verses, 32, 33 we read, “This image's head was of fine gold [1st empire], his breast and his arms of silver [2nd empire], his belly and his thighs of brass [3rd empire], his legs of iron [4th empire], his feet part of iron and part of clay [5th empire]. As we read then in Daniel 2, verse 35, “Then was the iron [Roman, 4th empire], the clay [5th empire], the brass [Greek, 3rd empire], the silver [Persian, 2nd empire], and the gold [Babylonian, 1st empire], broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.” So we can clearly see there are five empires mentioned in Daniel 2. And “Western Civilization” history books show this to be reliable and true.

Concluding there are only four empires [our 1+1=3 example above] in Daniel 2 cannot be attributed to the Biblical record. The evidence shows the four empire idea is consensus error clearly not advanced by the reliable, published source. Therefore, the four empire idea must be classified as original thought clearly not advanced by the published source. But, alas, it remains posted.

The stone that smote the fifth empire is a reference to the end of the image in the last days, the “deadly wound” inflicted less than one hundred years ago by the nations of Great Britain and the US. [See the Feature article, Is The US (And UK) In End-times Bible Prophecy?]. The stone is a reference to Israel’s sons in Genesis 49, verse 24, “But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from there is the shepherd, the stone of Israel) ....” Both Great Britain and the US have been the shepherds of their brother nations for the past 200 years until our most recent events.

To discover the identity of the missing fifth empire, we need to look at the first four and note their common characteristics. Basically, they were all dictatorial, were the mightiest military of their day, all would be considered non-Christian, and most tellingly, at the zenith of their power, they would control the territory that included the two most prominent cities in Biblical prophecy, Babylon and Jerusalem, as can be readily determined from any historical maps of these empires. The Babylonian, Persian, Greek and Roman empires all shared these characteristics as will the coming Babylon the Great.

The empire that had all these traits and followed Rome was the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire fulfilled the detailed descriptions in Daniel 2. In fact, it was the Ottoman Sultan Mahomet II that put an end to the Roman Empire, the eastern leg, in 1453 when the last Roman Emperor, Constantinus XI was deposed at Constantinople.

In Daniel 2, there are exact descriptive elements of this fifth empire. In verses 42, 43 we read, “And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. And whereas you saw iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.”

It should be noted that this portion of Daniel’s description is in reference to the toes and not the entire foot. Anatomically, we have ten toes. Thus, Daniel is telling us that this fifth empire will have ten notable men, or in the case of the Ottoman’s, ten notable sultans. British Lord Eversley wrote a thorough history of the Ottoman’s, The Turkish Empire, From 1288 to 1914. His work was published in 1917. Lord Eversley states, “ Solyman was the last of the first ten Ottoman sultans, who, succeeding one another from father to son, in rather less than 300 years, raised their empire from nothing to one of the most extended in the world.”

Eversley adds, “With one exception, they were all able generals and habitually led their armies in the field. They were all statesmen, persistent in pursuing their ambitious aims. Many of them were addicted to literary pursuits, were students of history and even had reputations as poets. In spite of all these softening traits [miry clay], there was in nearly all of them a fund of cruelty [iron mixed with miry clay]. It may be doubted whether, in the world’s history, any other dynasty has produced so long a succession of [ten] men of such eminent and persistent qualities.”

The second portion of Daniel’s description of these ten toes is, “… they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.” These ten were unique in Ottoman history in that each sultan killed off his brothers so that he, and he alone, produced the next sultan. The following sultan in turn killed off all his siblings, so that he, and he alone carried on the bloodline. This occurred with these ten sultans, or toes if you will, toe after toe after toe.

But the prophecy in Daniel 2 uses the analogy of ten toes, or sultans, not eleven, twelve or more. Was Daniel 2 correct? A remarkable event took place with toe number ten, Sultan Solyman. Before his death, Solyman killed all his sons so that the bloodline of the first ten sultans stopped with him. There was a major rupture between these first ten sultans and those who followed. As Lord Eversley remarked, “If the persistency of type and high qualities of the first ten sultans was remarkable, no less so was the break which occurred in their successors down to the present time [1914]. One is tempted to question whether the true blood of the Ottoman race flowed in the veins of these 25 degenerates.”

As noted above, the stone that Nebuchadnezzar saw strike the image of five empires, struck the image on its feet, not its toes.

While this is strong evidence, not only for five empires, but that the Ottoman’s were indeed the fifth empire, the Ottoman’s controlled the territory, which included both Babylon, or its ancient site, and Jerusalem.

The more telling aspect of Daniel’s prophecy is in the timing of the great image Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream. Recall, he saw only until the end of the fifth empire. There is a timing element involved. The timing elements are mentioned in Daniel as well.

The first involves Nebuchadnezzar himself. It is found in chapter 4, verses 16 and 17 of Daniel. “Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given to him; and let seven times pass over him … the intent that the living may know that the most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever he will, and sets up over it the basest of men.”

A time, Biblically speaking, is reference to a year. Thus, seven times here meant that Nebuchadnezzar would live as a beast for seven years. [The beast with seven empires and ten nations carries the woman, Jerusalem.] The base unit of a year is the day. A Babylonian year is 360 days. Seven times 360, then, prophetically speaking is 2520 years, “the intent that the living may know that the most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever he will ….” The five empire beast image of Daniel 2 was meant to last for 2520 years into Daniel’s future.

There is a second prophecy that also tells us that the five empires are numbered. It is found in Daniel 5, verses, 25-28, “And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.” All these are units of monetary weight. Mene is fifty shekels. Tekel is one shekel. And upharsin is twenty-five shekels. This adds up to 126 shekels. But the base unit is not the shekel, but the gerah. There are twenty gerahs to the shekel. Thus, 126 shekels times twenty equals 2520. It is the same number concerning Nebuchadnezzar “that the living may know that the most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever he will ….”

The message of Daniel 2 with the five empires is that those of us living should be aware that God rules the kingdom of men, contrary to popular consensus, and gives it to whomsoever he chooses. And to emphasize this point, we are given an exact time frame for these five empires, established and then brought down by God. And now, the sixth “one is” empire beginning to emerge, by the hand of God just as these five had previously.

We read above in Daniel 2, verse 34, that Nebuchadnezzar “… saw until that a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image upon his feet, that were of iron and clay, and broke them to pieces.” We read in Genesis 49, “But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from there is the shepherd, the stone of Israel).” Who is this stone of Israel?

As the dream of Nebuchadnezzar came to him in the second year of his reign, about 602 BCE, all we need to do is fast forward 2520 years to the time when he saw a stone smite the image on its feet. It brings us to the year 1918. This was the year the Ottoman Empire was finished, their military strength was broken, and the territory containing both the ancient site of Babylon and Jerusalem passed out of their hands becoming known as British Palestine. Think Lawrence of Arabia.

For a lot more historical and prophetical details about the fifth empire, and the Biblical record’s identity of the emerging sixth empire not published on an on-line source, read The Blind Man’s Elephant, chapters five and six, now a complimentary PDF at the bottom of the Home page. Also see the Q&A: The Blind Man's Elephant, question five.

Italics and [ ] are the author's.

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